ParaNet file on The Crucible
=========================================================================== THE CRUCIBLE416-244-9999 - 24Hrs - 12/24/96 *HST* (1:223/264) =========================================================================== The following file contains selected excerpts from phoneconversations I had with Robert Swan during the month of December.Bill Cooper both supplied me with his name, whereabouts, and "code"by which Robert Swan was to know that it was okay to divulge informationto me regarding his knowledge of what Bill Cooper had discussed with him. As Bill Cooper did not have Swan's phone number, I had to findthat out for myself. Additionally, Bill has asked that I not print Swan's address, as he does not want this individual "harassed". For those whoare serious about getting to the truth of the matter, they will know howto find this individual. There will be no commentary from myself, as the file shouldspeak for itself. Anything in [ ] brackets will represent clarificationof speech where necessary. Although several calls were made to RobertSwan, I have only included the most revelant material from 2 of them here. The purpose of my communicating with Robert Swan was to verifywhether or not Bill Cooper had indeed shown him certain UFO-relateddocuments (ie. Project Aquarius papers) back in 1972. -Tom Mickus 1/22/89Note: "........" indicates conversation not reproduced here.Selected Excerpts from Phone Conversation (A) (WITHOUT KNOWING "CODE") ---------------------------------------------------------------------- ........ "Of course you don't know me. I've been speaking with Bill Cooper". "Un-huh." "And you knew him from a while back?" "Yes."........ "There's one thing I wanted to ask you. Bill has decided to go public with all he knows, and has been getting from his sources; about what he knows about the U.S. gov't cover-up..." "Un-huh." "...with UFOs, that type of thing..." "Un-huh." "...and as one of the coroborating sources, he had mentioned your name to myself, and one other person as far as I know, about both of you seeing an Aquarius telex document back in '72. And I just wanted to find out, get confirmation from youf that that was true, that the content in there was what Bill has reproduced." "You know I can't um...I can't verify that. I don't recall that." "So you don't remember ever seeing anything like that?" "No. I may have. But off the top [of my head], you know thats been years and years. And I don't, I don't at the present time remember...you know if I remember the circumstances or something...if you could let me know what the circumstances were, then I could piece it back together. To all of a sudden to try and remember something like that... I mean, there's all kinds of discussions that we've had in the past, lengthy...and so on." "You mean related to this?" "Ahh, well there was a lot of stuff just as far as the carriers [aircraft] and stuff like that. But..." "Just dealing with the military though?" "Yeah. ...but not anything that... He was always very above-board with stuff. As far as classified stuff, when I was on the...I think he was on the Enterprise...I don't remember, but I was on board one time, and we were going through...he was showing me around and stuff, and there was areas that he had access to that naturally I wouldn't. I know his knowledge is definitely there." "So you can attest to that he has, or did have this, high security rating that would give him access to..." "Oh yeah. Sh*t yeah. "...cause he's come out and said that he's got 4 different military intelligence sources." "Right. Well he was in the Air Force, the Navy... anyway, right now I can't really recall the...if I remember the circumstances maybe I could piece it back together...I'll think about it...but as far as the UFO stuff, that...that was pretty much hearsay from what was going on on the carriers and stuff." "You mean from Bill, or from other people?" "From Bill, yeah." "Okay, this is the one thing he mentioned. The year was 1972 and it was an Aquarius-telex. Now I imagine if you did see this thing, it would probably stick in your mind..." "Yeah..." "you know, about exchange of technology between Alien groups, Project Plato, then there was a Project Sigma about establishing communications, Project Redlight to test fly Alien aircraft, then there was the Project Snowbird to cover that up, and that was about all that was in the Aquarius document." "Yeah." "But that doesn't ring a bell?" "No it doesn't."........ "But you say it could be true though?" "Oh yeah, it could be true, sure. He was really into that. You know, I mean as far as... yeah he was really interested in that kind of sh*t. But I don't recall seeing that. And like you said, if I had, it probably would stick in my mind. However, if I remember the circumstances, like I said, maybe I could piece it back together, but right now..." "About Bill's involvement, would you say that he's pretty level-headed about it? Was he talking about it all the time?" "No, I'd say he was pretty level headed about it."........ "Well he certainly had access to a lot of information. I'm aware of that."........ "Basically what I had gathered from him is on the space shots and so on, from tracking and so on...the sightings that have been seen from astronauts in space, you know, communications on board...just the sightings and so on. And I think thats what got his interest going on the thing. Navigation, he was a navigator I believe, and so he had all that front-line communication stuff going." "I'm just curious, but is he bound by any,...I know there are various regulations and this type of thing. But conceivably could he be in any hot water over..." "I would say so. Right off the top [of my head]". He's no longer in the military is he? "No..."........=====================================================================Selected Excerpts from Phone Conversation (B) (WITH "CODE" THIS TIME)---------------------------------------------------------------------........ "The reason why Bill doesn't want you to get in touch with him in the immediate interim, is because he has to get independent verification that he did see these particular documents so many years ago. Now you personally haven't spoken with him, or corresponded for how long would you say?" "Twelve, thirteen years."........ "...the night before he was to get married, he apparently told you "on the eve of his wedding", that was to be the code or whatever,...that you originally weren't supposed to tell anyone about this because it was just confidential between both of you. But he was telling me about when he had his house up on Aeia Heights Dr....[Bill Said] " I lived only a few houses below him, it was at night, we had a few drinks, I showed him the documents and gave him a copy of it. And we talked for about an hour about it. I asked him to never to discuss it with anyone as it was Top Secret. And then we never discussed it again after that." "Right." "So do you remember that?" "I remember something to that effect, yup." "And he said in the document, the coversheet said Majesty, it had Sigma, Redlight, Snowbird, Luna, Delta, NRO, Pluto, Plato, Pounce and a description of the aliens and other info in it..."....... "There's been lots of discussion and stuff, but as far as anything other than like you just said...really minor momentarily talking about...that's all well and good. But as far as going into depth and knowing exactly what all that stuff is, I don't." "He said he did give you a copy of something." "You know, I don't recall that. He possibly could have. The instance [of the meeting] I remember that occuring. But I don't remember him giving me a copy of anything because of his involvement with...he was with CINCPACFLT then, and I don't really... He might have shown me that, but I don't... he never gave me a copy of it that I recall. If he had of, I would have definitely had it stashed some place, and probably would have lost it by now anyway." "But theoretically it could be buried away somewhere in your old records?" "I've been through stuff over the last ten - fifteen years, and I a haven't come across it. But there's been stuff that Bill's shown me on UFO stuff so..."........ "...is there anything that you can specifically remember that can be shown... Basically what I'm trying to determine is; Yes, you did see this particular document. Now I want to know that besides the fact that; Yes, you and Bill were talking about the subject of...and..., this type of thing." "We were talking about the subject of UFOs quite a bit, and his interest in them and all that. As far as all of the stuff that was Top Secret, whatever, there was stuff that he had told me and that he couldn't say anything about, and so... And as far as getting a copy of some document, I don't really recall that, I may have seen it...but... And that period right before his wedding and all that, I remember that quite well." "So if I take you back to that specific evening on Aeia Heights, and you are both talking over drinks, and Bill comes out and shows you this one set of documents. Do you not specifically recall that? Because that is important." "I specifically recall him showing me something, but as far as him giving me a copy, I don't recall." "Well, forget about the copy part..." "As far as the exact Project and all of that, I can't really...if there was something in court or something and they would say, 'positively do you remember reading blah blah blah', and honestly I cannot." "So how would you characterize those documents? If you were to put it into your own sentence as to what he showed you, what would you say?" "Right off the top,\ 'He showed me some papers with a bunch of stuff on it.' But as far as what it was, as far as what the Projects and stuff that you were talking about...that doesn't ring a bell to me." "Like I said before, I don't want to involve you..." "Hey I'll tell you something, if I remembered, and if I had a copy of it, I wouldn't hesitate to get involved. I could careless about...where a person hangs out. I'm not squeamish in any ways, about what you're talking about, all kinds of supernatural stuff. If I had some knowledge of it, and I saw it...hell yeah man, I would get right into it." "Actually, I was thinking more of the...you know theoretically what some intelligence service could do to a person who... I thought that maybe you might not want to talk for that reason." "No no. After I talked with you the other time, I kinda gone back and re-lived conversations and stuff. As far as the contents of the document you are talking about... I know that we discussed a bunch of stuff as far as different things, but I don't know anything about the documents." "Do you remember discussing events connected with... Now, some of those Project names do they ring a bell at all? Or discussion of UFOs? Do you remember that as being central to what you were discussing, as opposed to just military..." "Well, if I got into the particulars of the different operations or something, I would probably remember what was said. As far as the code names and all of that kind of stuff, they really don't mean anything to me. As far as some of the things that were going on, I recall discussions on that. Its trying to piece together stuff that far back, and at that point in time it was fascinating to what was going on, but I didn't have any extreme interest in it." "Would you say, thinking back to that time...that Yes, the impression left is that this stuff that you saw dealt with UFOs. Was that..." "Oh yeah." "That's clear then, right?" "Oh yeah." "You're just talking specifics now. And although you may not remember what was on the pages, whatever, can you think back in your mind, and actually see Bill passing something over for you to look at...or referring to something in front of him, specific documents." "Yeah, I remember that. I remember that, but its like I said, as far as the contents and so on, that was just discussed. As far as a copy, I don't recall getting one.".......======================================================================== [ - End of File - ]
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